Amy Dickens on Joy, Play, Healing Burnout, and Reconnecting to Your True Self

0:00 Looking for real stories that lift you up? Welcome to Inspire and Impact. The podcast where purpose meets perseverance? This is where transformation begins and your story continues. Welcome to the Inspire Impact podcast show. I’m your host, Dana Rosenstein. Today, the honoring Amy Dickens. Amy, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Thanks for having me. I’m so excited to be here. Can you introduce yourself to the audience so they better know who you are? Yeah, absolutely. I am on a mission to reignite that spark inside of adults. You know, really reconnecting them to their joy, to their sense of play and aliveness. And yeah, I do some public speaking. I host some joy parades. I am an author. And yeah, I’m about to launch a summer camp for adults. It’s substancefree and all kinds of fun to help people remember what it feels like to really live in that state of joy.

1:03 Fantastic. Thank you so much. So, I mean, you said you once believed that adulthood had to be serious and, you know, very heavy. Where did that belief come from, you know, and how did it shape your early life? Yeah, I mean, I grew up with parents that I freaking love. I adore my fam, but We also have, you know, really Midwestern Chicago roots of we work hard and like we work the hardest and we strive and we do the best was really, I think, the culture of my family growing up and, you know, it’s it served them and I’m really grateful for it because it’s brought a lot of opportunity to my family and all of that. But I was a little achiever. I thought that my love was and worth as a human being was based off of what I did. I was like, you know, straight A student, you know, doing president of the college, you know, doing all the right things and then that turns into, you know, a worker B at, you know, we start getting jobs like, oh, wow, such a good worker, such great job.

2:02 She’s so independent. And, you know, I’m like just like kind of going above and beyond for all the things. And I think that’s a beautiful thing. But I think that when it stems from a sense of I’m not enough. I need to do this in order to be safe as a person, belong or enough or lovable or whatever that might be. And also just not in alignment with who I was. You know, I was just people pleasing. I was just like, "Ah, I think that this job or whatever it might be will make people around me happy, you know, and make them feel good about me, you know, and kind of living a life a little more by the rule book, I guess, so to speak, to make other people comfortable and realizing one day I didn’t like my life. I was really struggling with depression and social anxiety and I was like, something has to shift here." So what was the turning point that made you realize that joy was missing from your life that you know you sound like you were struggling through anxiety and depression and health challenges? Like what was like the turning point that made you like want to switch?

3:09 Yeah. You know, I always say I wish that there was like this one moment and everything all changed from there and there was no looking back. But when I really look back, it was, you know, a full 10 years of really struggling with depression and social anxiety. And there was many moments of kind of seeing it and having that moment of, you know, oh, there it gets better. There’s something that I can and kind of almost taste here. And often it would be this pain is getting too much was often what was like kind of pushing me to that breaking point of something has to change now. And then I’d get scared and I’d start to feel the changes coming and be, "Oh my god, my whole life would change if I do this." And I would get scared and go back to the old thing and just live with my suffering. And eventually I just kind of I think got sick of rerunning that pattern for years and years and feeling so stuck. I felt so stuck was really the word I think I would use for it. I was like doing so much learning about growth but not a lot of just doing the things and started just like taking leaps towards what I felt would be joyful because I just reached a breaking point of I can’t keep suffering like this. Something has to change and no one’s going to change it but me and I don’t really know what it looks like to get there. So I just started kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what stuck is what I was calling it. And I sold all my stuff and I moved into a van with my partner cuz I was I don’t know, man. This isn’t working. Let’s just try something different. And it was hard and it was scary and it was also exhilarating. And it was the first time I think I’d ever really gone all in on something I had dreamed of and been like, whoa, I feel my little ember inside. That’s like that spark that lives inside of us. started growing and I started hearing that gut feeling and so that voice you know that

5:02 little the widow like oh there’s something inside of us each of us that says this go there create this or this experience or whatever it was that voice started getting louder and easier to hear versus the like constant you know criticism and doubt and you know whatever negative self-t talk thought was kind of swirling in my head before I was like oh okay I’m just going to realize that I’m never going to feel ready for these things that I feel excited for that I get to move through the fear and do it and like kind of through repetitively doing that. I was like life is changing in the best of ways and it’s really hard sometimes and it’s scary but it’s also I I wouldn’t change it for the world. I mean many people think like discipline and productivity are keys to success. How did you discover the joy and play were some of the missing pieces for you?

5:59 Yeah, I mean honestly I would say on accident. I have burnt out. I probably can’t even count the amount of times I’ve literally burnt. I know it’s like a term but like literally the last time I burnt out like my adrenals were in shock. Like it sent me through a whole year and a half of having to get my hormones back. Like I could not get out of bed. Was literally like just struggling cuz I was like whoa. Okay, this is what it looks like when you really burn out and you just your body’s you can’t keep doing this anymore, Amy. You just literally this isn’t the way. You can’t keep grinding. And I said, "Okay, I have these dreams I want to build and the only way that I’ve ever known to do anything is to grow and to burn the candle at both ends and give it my all my can’t move anymore." That’s okay. Apparently that’s not going to work because our physical body is shutting down. At the time I was 32 years old and I was like or 30 years old. I was like that ain’t going to be a good sustainable way of being. And so I said, "Okay, walk your talk." Like literally let the joy and the play lead your life and see what happens there.

7:04 And I was noticing because my go-to of my nervous system is often a state of like freeze. And it’s very taxing. It doesn’t look like a lot is going on when someone’s in a freeze state where there’s pos play dead, but it’s like a big fear moment inside of them that’s exhausting for your body. And I started just through trial and error realizing when I get in a state of play and joy that it is just calming my whole nervous system and that I was able to instead of grinding and gritting my way to my dreams that I could find ways, oh, this gets to be fun. And actually the more that I’m enjoying the process of creating this, the more kind of like sustainability I have to create it, the more that I’m enjoying the journey of my life and the more in like kind of like inspiration I guess to do things in an different way that seem to be working better actually rather than trying to be like according to my calculations this is the way. Oh, I’m thinking creative problem solving here. It’s more accessible to me. And it’s magnetic when you’re in a joyful, playful state. And I think most of the hidden secrets often is like who you meet, like connections that you have and like serendipitous things and you’re like this person introduces you to this person and then everything changes from there kind of things. And when you’re in this playful joyful state, you’re magnetic. like people are just like, "Oh, I want to talk to you." Like, "I just resonate with you." And things just start to happen with more ease rather than let me keep going.

8:36 I mean, looking back, what surprised you the most about how powerful play can be in your healing and transformation? Wow. What surprised me the most? I mean the fact that it because I before I really started diving into this, I was really studying a lot about the nervous system because I was like, okay, I was recognizing my nervous system was really sensitive and it was really struggling with you getting out of this freeze. So I was like reading like piles of books and podcasts and all the things and learning about like poly bagel theory and I was like taking workshops on like how to you know do these techniques to regulate your nervous system and I wasn’t getting barely any results. I was getting really frustrated quite frankly. I was like is there something wrong with me? What’s going on? they’re saying that this should work and this isn’t really helping me very much or it’s helping me that very little and I wasn’t playing or like leaning into it because it was something that I thought would regulate my nervous system. It was something I just enjoyed doing and I felt really alive and like a different version of myself would come alive when I’m like got this like louder than life laugh when it starts to like kind of turn on.

9:52 And I was realizing through like reflecting back, oh wow, that’s really healing my nervous system and the fear that lives inside of me. And there’s a new version of me that just automatically shows up. Like it’s not like I’m trying to be that version of me. She’s already there. She’s just kind of like stifled by the like fear and all the things and then when it starts to loosen its grip, she’s just already ready to go. It’s not like there’s really much I need to force her to do. She’s just waiting for kind of my whole body to soften. I get like, "Oh, it’s safe. There’s not a tiger running after me." And the tiger is not like an email or the fear that somebody’s going to, I don’t know, reject me or something. Wonderful. I mean, so why do you think like joy is so essential for adults? A lot of times when people think of joy, they think of being a kid. So why do like adults need to have joy in their life? Absolutely.

10:54 Yeah. Yeah. I think that it is just such an underutilized essence in our lives today that we’re really like starving for it. I think that joy and there’s so many flavors of joy. You know, there can be the really playful, expressive flavor, the really simple like when I walk outside in the morning, I just look up at the trees and I’m like, "Wow, I’m alive." And just have this more peaceful, contented kind of joy. And you know, everything and anything in between. And I think that there’s probably as many experiences of joy as there is people on the planet. And I think that our joy is something that really connects us to the reason that we came here to be, you know, that like spark of aliveness, that connection to each other, to our purpose, to fulfillment. And it really Yeah, it’s a choice as well. Like I think sometimes we think that joy is something that just happens. Like it’s oh the joy just knocks on your door and sometimes it knocks and sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes it’s there and sometimes you’re like where did it go?

12:03 And something that I’ve learned and continue to learn and continue to have the discipline to realize is that it’s a practice. It’s a skill that we can develop. It certainly was not a skill that I had whatsoever when I was struggling with depression and social anxiety. I was like bottom of the scales for Amy. You know, like there were certain moments, you know, where I’d be like hanging out with, I don’t know, my boyfriend or something. I’d be like, "Oh, a pretty little moment of this joy." And then I, you know, go right back down to the struggle bus. Then like the habit of struggling in all of those stories and patterns that I was repeating and I recognized, okay, this is something that I can continue to practice. And not that I don’t also, you know, feel my feelings. I’m, you know, I’m also a big proponent of don’t shove it down. Like you got to feel feelings and be human. If you keep shoving stuff down and eventually it’ll just kind of blow up in you. But it’s something that really when you learn to open yourself to practice the skill of joy, you can find just the magic of life again and just the here and now and not have to wait for I’ll be happy when I achieve X or this happens or life looks like this or this person does this. It’s oh I can become the creator and kind of bring my power back by saying I get to create joy in my life.

13:29 So when in your experiences working with your client, what happens when someone begins allowing more joy into their lives? I when somebody begins allowing more joy into their lives, the first thing I start to notice just like talking to them is this sense of I don’t know almost like childlike giddiness or you know oh they’re start to express more like I notice a shift from even just like purely physically looking at someone. They might come in and they’re very unexpressive with their face and their tone is pretty like similar and there’s very like you know I talk like this and I’m not really inspired and then suddenly oh there’s creative ideas and inspiration and I’m suddenly feeling like I want to connect more with people which I think as human beings even and you know can tend to be introverted and extroverted and all things and I get that there’s like alone time but also we’re social beings like we’re literally wired for connection. I notice people wanting to reach out to people more to kind of spread the joy that they’re connecting into with the people around them and saying, "Wow, this is something that has been contagious inside of my heart that I want to start sparking joy in other people." Because that’s just it’s a real thing that I think can start changing the world around you just by you being in that state of joy. It’s it’s like the best contagion. I sometimes I mean when you think like my society is losing out when adults stop playing in joy.

15:08 Said how society’s losing out. Is that what you said? Yeah. Like I think you know what if society is not gaining by pe you know having adults not being in so much joy? Oh my god. So much. It’s unreal. I think I mean there I think there’s a whole people that are like I do neuroscience and I study the benefits of play and joy. There’s Dr. Stuart Brown. He’s one of the leads of the National Play Institute and he has done so much research on how play is essential for creative problem solving and understanding how to like come up with solutions that we normally wouldn’t think. And it also increases like our empathy with other people and it increases the amount of connectivity that we experience with one another. So we’re having like this whole loneliness epidemic. Like people are feeling more isolated. We’re like more connected in a sense with you know these phones and these boxes screens that we have around us. So we have like at the touch of our fingertips I can be connected to anybody in the world which is an incredible thing. And we’re so disconnected in the way that our lives are. But when we start to play, it starts to help rewire our brain also so much faster. When you are in a state of play, you can learn something. So when you do something normally and you’re trying to create a new neuro pathway in your brain, you have to do it anywhere from 2 to 400 times of repeating that pattern in order for it to become, oh, this is the new way I think and be and do in this world.

16:40 And when you start learn that habit by playing and you’re like in a playful alive state where you’re just fully present in the moment, there’s no thinking happening really. You’re just like laughing and enjoying and in it. You have to do that anywhere from like 10 to 25 times in order for it to become the new thing. So is lit. And I think that’s, you know, it’s like kids learn so fast because they’re just sponges in that sense of masters of learning through play. That’s really how they do it. I used to be a kindergarten teacher and that’s you know they’re playing all the time and they learn incredibly fast like how amazing me all the time and yeah I think it’s really it’s I it’s I it’s amazing to even imagine what the world would be like if we were playing more. I like to say that or not I like to say but I imagine for myself and everyone I’ve ever met what state that we’re in changes the decisions that we’re making. So if I’m in an angry, frustrated or kind of state, I respond to people in my life differently. The people I love the most.

17:47 I might be a little you have nothing to do with this reason that I’m a little cranky, but I’m a little cranky and sassy at you maybe. Versus if I’m in like a joyful state, it’s like it almost doesn’t even matter what they say. I might just like laugh and you know have a whole different kind of reaction. And if we could, you know, as bosses, as parents, as teachers, as leaders, as you know, like even the you know, whatever people who are leading whatever kind of thing, if they are in a playful state, a joyful state versus an angry state, a closed off state, a really kind of whatever scared state even, they’re going to that meeting, that way they’re leading is going to be completely different because their brain is going to be primed to be making different decisions, to be responding to people differently. So, I think it’s almost impossible to imagine what the world would be like because it would just be so radically different in how all of our interactions would be responding because I think a lot of the way that a lot of us are primed to act is out of anger, out of fear, out of shame, out of, you know, just these subtle fear states basically that are kind of running the show.

18:57 So if somebody feels stuck in the cycle of stress and seriousness, what’s the first step towards feeling more joy and play? Yeah, I’m going to give you two steps. Bonus step. First step, I would say you can do these in any order. Try them in both orders, whatever strikes your fancy. I’m a huge proponent of this concept called physiology first. So basically there’s so much you hear about your mindset and like what you’re thinking and like all of this and that’s great you know I also am a proponent of that of change your mindset change the meaning you give things that like can really change your world but if your body is in a state of whatever you’re feeling sad frustrated stuck whatever it is it’s really hard for these new thoughts that we’re having to kind of sink in. There’s some subconscious programming like I don’t believe that I don’t you kind of don’t let it in. It’s really hard to actually shift in my experience through that. And our physiology is sending signals to our brain constantly sending like hormones and chemicals and all of these things.

20:03 So like when you see a depressed person, they have a certain physiology. Their shoulders are really slump. Their breath is really shallow. Their voice is really like softer often and more monotone. They’re not expressive with their face. Versus a really joyful person, you could see them across the room. Their shoulders are bad. They’re loud. They’re proud. They’re probably laughing. Like they’re kind of like leading physically with their heart might be like a little like open towards people and their posture and their is like open towards the people they’re talking and they speak more expressively with their hands. Obviously, this looks different from person to person, but what the way in which each of those two people are moving is sending different chemicals to your brain. So, doing something that will shift yourself. It might be it’s definitely different for everyone. you know, find what way that you enjoy moving your body is often great, you know, cuz if you’re enjoying it, that just great. And it’s, you know, you’re going to get endorphins if you’re really moving your body like to a certain rhythm. I got into running recently, but never in my life did I think I’d be into running. But it’s really, it’s like quick fast way to shift it. I did a little run right before this. I was like, how do I get myself in a state for this podcast? I’m going to go for a quick run, take a quick shower, and show the heck up. But yeah, moving your body and that could be as simple as, you know, let me just turn on a song and move my body around like alone in my office or I might, you know, just go for a walk around the block or getting outside is honestly great. Like looking outside at nature is the best.

21:33 Or it could be just standing in your power pose. We’ve seen the research about that. You know, hands on your hips. It really does make a difference. But moving your body basically in some kind of way. And I think the more active it is, the easier it is in my experience to really shift your state. You know, the more like I’m moving, the more rhythmic it is, the more it’s Oh, okay. And I’m a different person at the end of that five minute. And from there, I encourage you to allow your joy to lead. What does that mean? When I say that, I am saying tune in to the things that you’re like, wow, that feel turn off any judgment. You allow yourself to have like a piece of paper and be like, "All right, nobody else even ever needs to see this piece of paper. I could burn it for all I care at the end of it." And let me write down everything I can possibly think of that might spark joy from teeny tiny things to big things. And just let yourself run wild with it.

22:30 and be like, "Okay, maybe I want to go to a new coffee shop once a week and just romanticize my life and pretend like I’m writing in like the cafes of Paris for now and then like in a year I’m going to go to Paris cuz that feels like a or maybe it’s I want to start this new project that I have been thinking about for years like maybe I want to launch a podcast or write a book or whatever it is and allow yourself to say okay amazing what one do I want to lean into and know that if you’re feeling fear That doesn’t mean it’s wrong. If you’re feeling really excited and actually really fearful about something that usually in my case I say that means full steam ahead baby because that’s like bingo like we hit something that’s really on the edge of my comfort zone that’s going to grow me. And I’m going to give you a bonus one because this one I’m always just needing to remember is so you might have these things on your list that you’re really excited about creating. You’re like oh my god I am going to write a book. This is going to be great.

23:28 And there might be a little story that you’ll say, I’ll be happy when I sell this many copies, when it’s published. And it might, you know, just kind of be like the bar keeps moving kind of thing. And remember that the process, the journey of creating this thing is like 90% of the journey of your life is the middle part. So how can you practice? Because I’m it’s a practice. It’s not like you just decide and it’s just easy all the time. It’s like you got to keep remembering, oh, I don’t need to be so stressed about my dream. I can allow myself to enjoy it. I can practice to the best that I can playing around. And I think that’s different for each of us to enjoy the process of creating a life that you feel so inspired by, that you feel filled with joy by, that you can wake up and say, "Wow, I’m so excited to live my life and be the director of my life today and to create these things and to do all the things that sparks the most joy in me."

24:30 So, what are some signs that somebody has been disconnected from their joy? I would say feeling I mean there’s so many different signs but definitely feeling you know like some level of depressed stuck anxious that like constant like hamster wheel in your head I got to go to the next thing and the next thing and the next thing and there’s no pausing to just remember oh I’m alive I’m really here there’s yeah there’s the just the going through the motions I think can be a really big one or feeling like is this as good as it gets? You know, I think that there’s the the numbness can be a sneaky one sometimes of it doesn’t really feel like too much, but if you really are honest with yourself than how you’re at, you’re like, "Wow, I could actually feel a lot more alive. I know that I’m meant for more." And like I think my joy could be a pathway to opening that door to that moreness, so to speak.

25:33 Great. I mean, some people do they want to be more creative like you mentioned things like writing a book, doing things they don’t know how because you know some people have writer’s block or what I call like some type of creative block where they they can’t connect to that level of creative some people are so leftrain or or stuck in you know mode of thinking that they can’t unlock level creativity. How can somebody break through that block that may be blocking them from either, you know, wanting to write or even draw pictures or, you know, any type of rushing? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I just want to be like super honest here. Like I still to this day sometimes experience creative blocks. I was this past week and I was like, why am I so blocked on this thing? Like I’m like creating this speech that I’m like been so excited to give. And all of a sudden I was like I have no thoughts. This is impossible to think. I don’t know what to write.

26:32 And like really what’s happening there in my experience when I reflect on all the times that I’ve really been creatively blocked in retrospect. There was a part of me that was just really scared and my nervous system was scared of getting it wrong, of not doing it right or that somebody would judge me or you know insert XYZ story here. it’s different for all of us or just often just doubting myself, just doubting my abilities and, you know, almost like doubting the words or whatever it is before it even has a chance to come out. And so I think, you know, kind of recognizing that might be a first step of there’s nothing wrong with you. If you’re like, "Oh my god, what’s wrong with me? I can’t think creatively." There’s nothing wrong with you. Like we all I think have these moments and these moments can be great opportunities of exploration for us to say okay this is an opportunity to tap into my creativity. Maybe it looks like stepping away for a second and connecting creatively. So, if you’re like trying to create, you know, a certain kind of creative project, like I’m trying to write or I’m trying to, I don’t know, paint or film something, whatever it is, try a different medium maybe first because maybe that medium that you’re trying to do, there’s so much pressure that you’ve put on it that it sucked all of the fun out of it and all of the creativity out of it because the creativity in your system’s just like really scared of getting it and so it’s impossible to access it. So go find a different way to tap into your creativity whether it’s through I and creativity can go any form of expression like literally you can cook and be creative. You can go honestly one of my forms of creativity recently has been I go on a coffee date with a new stranger once a week and it’s like just it’s basically a podcast with like someone random but no one’s filming it but you just say oh I’m going to see

28:26 wherever this conversation leads and lead it with curiosity and see what happens and allowing yourself to just have avenues to explore without having any need to have any kind of finished product and allow yourself to tap into play. What does that look like for you when you’re in that state of full presence, fully like enjoying the moment? It could be a million different things, you know? I think some people are like really in a state of play when they’re, I don’t know, kind of like designing something on the computer. They’re like, "Whoa, like I see a whole world in here and I’m really tapped in." Or, you know, for me, I’m always like doing something goofbally and like playing games or, you know, making a musical or like doing something ridiculous like getting people to dance to the street. And I recognize for a lot of freaky people that’s not going to be a state of play for them. They’re going to be like, "Yes, I’d rather run probably like a marathon." Even though that even sounds like torturous in and of itself, but the whole point of it is find what makes you feel alive. And no one can really tell you what that is because it’s different for each of us. So if you don’t know, it’s just an opportunity to explore what it looks like to smile again. And I’m going to say that often there’s a lot of connection that is a key to our joy. the depth and the quality of our human connections of like our close intimate relationships is like Harvard studies shows the top predictor of happiness and joy in our lives like above everything else. So maybe it looks like just pouring into your close relationships or if you don’t have any, I’ve gone through relation or phases of my life where I have no close relationships, you know, totally reread the script of your life and so I’ve had to rebuild it and now I have amazing close friends and there two years ago I didn’t know any of these people and in that phase I said okay my top priority

30:21 for my creativity is actually build community because when I have people around me that are there for me and got my back also boosts your creativity because you say that little reptile part of your brain is, "Oh, these people got my back through thick and thin and they also believe in me. They lift me up when I’m feeling down." They like, "Amy, if you’re doubting yourself, like I got you today." And we all need those people in our court because when we are in like a season or a moment of I don’t know where my creativity went, those people can kind of help breathe life back into us and reconnect us to our joy. So there’s kind of a couple different things in that. Great. So I mean what role do you think laughter plays in healing? Like why do you think obsessed with it? I’m obsessed with laughter. If all I could do is just like laugh every day. That would be the best. I feel like I am just in my highest alignment. If I’m laughing, I’m like, we’re doing something right. This is good. But laughter in and of itself is completely regulating to the nervous system. It is just like you are fully present. You’re in a sense of like safety. You’re like really laughing or even you know I think sometimes I’ve been a nervous laugher my whole life and some people have annoyed by that in certain situations but I actually think that’s a wisdom inside of my being saying huh we’re like kind of starting to get a little triggered here.

31:50 Let’s laugh because it actually is going to help bring your body back into a sense of safety so that you can stay in a creative connective state basically because if we’re not in a sense of safety, we’re out of s we’re out of connection and we’re out of creativity basically. So that’s the whole kind of goal with that. And laughter is so connective. I think you know it’s really hard for a lot of adults to make friends and to feel safe and connective. It’s like we’ve really over complicated it and our lives are not designed for it to be easeful quite frankly. You know, I think proximity is an that’s like the key way often. We like oh that’s how I made friends in schools. I don’t know. Bob was just sitting over there and like eventually me and Bob became friends. There wasn’t really like rhyme or reason to it. It was just like we sp sat next to each other for long enough. But like when we’re living lives where there isn’t this proximity, there has to be more intentionality to you. We need more connection. So laughter really great way to like kind of speed through the clunkiness of friends. It’s like you laugh and there’s something that says, "Oh, I can be safe with this person. I trust this person. I actually like this person." And you know, I know you wrote your book 101 ways to spread joy, focusing on creating ripple effects of positivity. What inspired you to write this book?

33:17 Yeah, honestly it was a dark season that I had gone through a few years ago that really inspired it. I was like, you know, went through one of those huge breakups, had burnout where I was just having all of these health issues pop up for me and I was like, whoa, what is going on? I was, you know, like kind of in between where I was living and trying to rewrite my life and like completely stuck and like unsure of where to go next. in that like what is going on kind of moment and I had just a really low phase and I remember looking in the mirror one day and I looked at myself like wow you look rough girl something has got to change you got all these tools you’re needing a new tool in your tool kit so to speak and we know that the way we start our day sets the tone for the rest of the day so I said hey what can we do let’s give oursel a 30-day challenge and at first the challenge was let’s do something joyful in the first 30 minutes of the day just to see what happens. Maybe that’ll bring a little more joy into my life. And a few days in, I wrote on little pieces of paper all of the things that I needed to hear, all of the little messages that I was like, "Okay, like in this really dark season, these are the things that I need to hear someone else say to me right now." And I said, "Okay, let’s just spread them around town, I So, I hid it in the library, in the grocery store, and I put them under people’s windshield wipers, and I sat in my car and was waiting for to see if I could see someone, you know, pick one up. And this old lady comes up in the middle of winter in Chicago, and she’s all, you know, crunched up and she’s her face is all small and she’s walking up and she sees it and I see her whole body light up. Her whole posture changes. She got this huge smile on her face and it lit something up inside of me to help spread

35:07 that joy not just in me which was also important but also to kind of ignite it and spread it in other people. And so I started kind of shifting the rest of that 30 days to be more how can I spread joy in the world around me too. And it lifted me out of a funk in such a huge way. And by the end of the 30 days my life honestly did look really different. It totally did help get me unstuck. I moved to a whole new city. I like, you know, started a coaching program. I was like doing all of these new things. And I was like, whoa. Like, I’m not perfect by any means. There was still some like walking through hard times that needed to be done. And it lit a fire of aliveness inside of me that reconnected me. And eventually, few years passed and I said, "Wait, second, that 30-day challenge of spreading joy. That really helped me, didn’t it? I wonder if it could help somebody else. So, I thought I’m going to write a whole book about it. And so I decided to break it down into just a bunch of ideas to there’s like a book club kind of joy spreading uh little breakdown of if you want to meet up with people once a week as you read through the book and say okay let’s kind of either do this together or use this as accountability if you’re like I want to go try some of these things with the people in the group or okay I’m saying I’m going to do this thing and we’re going to meet next week and these people are holding me accountable so I’m going to have to think cuz humans work really well with accountability like 70% better or something or you’re more likely to do that studies show.

36:39 Yeah. And I put my story into it and said so people can relate to it and you know the reasons of why joy and play and the science behind it like why is this actually going to you know neurologically change who you are as a person? Like how is this going to actually change your identity and like biochemicals in your brain? So that it kind of speaks to all of the different parts of us that are kind of, you know, it’s like the heart part. I want to hear someone else’s story and be able to relate and have empathy. And the other part and I need to understand the logic of how this is actually going to work before I actually try it. And yeah, just have a fun time doing it. Yeah. And it’s on Amazon. It’s got all kinds of rainbow in it. And I really designed it to be something that you could read on the toilet before bed, little chunks, you know, like realistically when are people reading these days? How often are they reading? Often not that much. So, we made it very digestible. Can you share like one or two ways from a book that people can spread joy?

37:41 Yeah, absolutely. I would say one of my favorite ways is to send either a text, a voice memo, or you know, it could be like a handwritten letter if you like of appreciation. Like I like to say if I think of a compliment or an appreciation of somebody I want to and I’m just thinking of it randomly in my head. I try my best. I’m a little I’m going to say honest right now. I don’t think I’ve been as good as it as I used to be. But I like to share it with that person. Pick up the phone. I either call them or say on voice note be like I was just thinking this amazing thing about you. You are so gifted at facilitating this thing. You make it look so easy. It’s incredible. and it’s just like radiant in the room and I’m just so grateful for that and whatever it might be whatever you just and to just share that with people and it might be a practice you want to do like first thing in the morning like let me just send spend 60 seconds sharing appreciation to someone I think that’s like a really simple one and I’m not even kidding when I say nine times out of 10 the person that I’m randomly thinking of they will text me back I don’t know how I don’t know how you’re knew I needed that today. I was having a really hard date.

38:55 Like the chances that you would r like literally I texted somebody yesterday for the first time in eight months. Have not talked to her and she was like, "Amy, I’m having like the worst like the hardest day I’ve had in a really long time." And you texted me this and it just totally lit up my day. Like you never know what someone’s going through. And so just it’s like the smallest thing that you can do and it’s very say like safe approachable and it really fills your cup to say wow I can make a difference in the world I can really have a small impact on someone’s day. And another one I would say is where do I want to go with it? I would say and maybe the one of leaving little random notes around town cuz that one is also really accessible like just it’s a good one to do with kids too. You just write things and write vulnerable things too. If you could like really have a message you’re like I would love to hear this today. This would make my day. You could write it in chalk outside. You could write little post-it and just put it around cuz I think people really need those little nuggets of reminders more than we realize. I think we think that everyone else has it together but us that like when we’re having a bad day that like most other people aren’t having a bad day. But I don’t know, people are struggling out there right now. And yeah, I’ve had on more than one occasion like hearing from someone like just seeing a little note like, "Oh my god, I just got evicted from my house.

40:26 someone told me and like they were like getting in your tears cuz that message was just like the perfect thing they needed to hear on that day. I would have had no freaking way of knowing that is an experience that they were having or a thing that they needed to hear. I don’t even remember what I wrote on the piece of paper at this point. But yeah, I think we’re all much having a ripple effect of impact every single day. Whether we’re, you know, angry or fearful or sad or joyful or peaceful or whatever it might be, that sense of beingness is kind of having a ripple on the world around us, an impact beyond what we can really see. And we can intentionally create that ripple and kind of change the world around us, at least in our immediate community. And from there, you know, it kind of just continues to go as we continue to lean into it. Now, you also have a cam for adults.

41:26 Can you tell me a little bit about that? What does that look like? Yeah, absolutely. This is a new creation of mine that I’m so excited about. It’s called Joy Camp. It’s going to be a sober, substancefree summer camp for adults in North Carolina. It’s going to be in August and I am so excited about it. Basically, I don’t if you’ve gone to summer camp as a kid, it’s going to be a close recreation to that in a lot of ways in the sense of feeling that nostalgic sense of time disappearing. We’re going to really encourage it to be phone free and just allowing people to be in the moment. We’re going to hire our photographers. So, if you’re like scared about like my memories, like all of them are going to be there. and we’re going to share them with you and we’re going to play games and we’re going to like laugh until our sides hurt and really teach people the in really fun ways the skillfulness of how to remember how to choose joy and how to like keep like redoing it again. And we’re going to go on little nature adventures.

42:30 There’s 60 acres of nature that this whole event is going to be hosted on. It’s like a river and a sauna like right on there. So, we’re going to really be tuning in to what does it look like to live joyfully again? And, you know, maybe it might feel a little edgy for certain people I recognize to be like, "Oh my god, I’m going to this adult summer camp and I might not know anybody and oh my god, what is Amy going to ask me to do?" And, you know, obviously everything I’m not going to force you to do anything I ever say. But I do promise you that it’s going to be a lot of fun and that I’ve done a lot of leading people into the uncertainty and they come out the other side of, "Wow, I had so much fun doing that. I just laughed more than I can remember laughing in such a long time. I like, you know, did things I wouldn’t have even imagined having done." and kind of it’s like expanding your comfort zone and learning that it gets to be fun and realizing you’re regulating your nervous system and becoming a new joyful version of yourself along the way.

43:37 And do you have any information like online about that or yet or not yet? We haven’t fully launched it. Early bird tickets are going to be coming out soon. You can sign up for like newsletter where I’ll send you the f be the first to know about early bird tickets on my website live joyfullywu.com/joyamp. You’ll find it there and we’ll let you know all the ins and the outs. You can get a sweet old little discount. We’ll be launching it soon. We’re tweaking some little things here and there to really get it fine-tuned here. It sounds really exciting. So, if somebody’s watching this podcast and they’re feeling overwhelmed, stressed out, or disconnected from joy right now, what’s one simple message you want them to hear? It gets so much better. I know how it feels if you’re feeling really disconnected from your joy and you’re like, "My joy feels a million miles away, Amy." I don’t know if you know. I know what it feels like when you’re like, "I don’t even know what planet Joy is on, but it doesn’t feel like the one I’m on for sure." like we’re just living in Laand over here. Trust me, I I’ve been there. I’ve spent a lot of time in that zip code. And it’s a hard zip code to live in. And [clears throat] I promise you, it gets so much better. And it takes some brave moments. It takes some moments of believing in a version of yourself that you, I’m sure, in certain moments, can see and feel. And you’re like, "Ah, I know that it’s there. I know that it’s really can ignite inside of me again." and that there’s been moments in your life where you have been so joyful and happy and sparked alive and maybe it’s been a long time and that’s okay, but that there is a way back to it and that you inside hold all the answers back there. It’s just a matter of reconnecting to that and trusting yourself again in a lot of

45:28 ways of saying, "Oh, okay. I believe in myself that this thing here is gonna help lead me back to my joy and that it’s actually worth it to prioritize my joy. I think that’s a huge part of it is say oh my joy in my play worthy of being worth and that kind of is something that you can actually even schedule into your life. That’s a huge thing that I’ve done is really allowing that to guide me along the way. the amount of times that I have scheduled something in and I don’t want to go and then I go and by the end of it I’m like, "Oh my god, I’m so glad I went." That just totally filled up my cup for the whole week and trust it and just lean into the discomfort and allow it to surprise you because you never know who you can become on the other side of your facing your fears and that joy that is waiting to be unleashed inside of you. It’s just primed and ready and the world is so excited for it because when we’re living in a joyful state, we really can make a huge impact on the world. Unimaginable.

46:35 I’m like even the impact I’m making today. I’m like, this is for myself even just a tiny fraction because I know that there is even more fear that I can continue to walk through and face and say, "Oh my god, it’s actually safe to do that, too." And now I can expand the amount of joy that I can share with the world around me and the amount of capacity I have. Great. How are there other ways that you do work with people? Do you offer like private one-on-one coaching? No, I’m not doing any one-on-one coaching right now. I am mostly focused on doing in-person events. So, I got Joy Camp. I host a event bi-weekly here called Joy Parade. If you’re ever in Asheville, North Carolina, you want dance to the streets and we are just all focused on igniting joy in ourselves, of course, but also the world around us. And we get random people to dance with us and kind of make life feel like a movie. And it’s amazing. Yeah. And I’m leaning into doing a lot more joy parades at events and public speaking at events and more more just kind of in that kind of realm. So having a lot of fun with that.

47:42 Excellent. Amy, I wanted to thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing about your experiences and spreading the joy. I agree with you. Like I think we definitely need more joy in our lives and in society. There always seems to be so much negativity out there. So it’s nice that there’s somebody promoting positivity. It’s really wonderful. A thanks so much. Thanks so much for having me here. It’s been such a delight. What are the best ways that people can reach out to you or follow you? Yeah, I mean social media at the Amy Dickens on all of the platforms. Totally great way. Lots of different random fun inspirations joyful. Oh, what is she doing? Wow. Amount of times that people are like, "Wow, you heard part." It’s just this lights up my day. I’m like, "Wow, that means the world to me." or if you want to follow my newsletter and you can go to my website livejo joyfullywu.com and get the first 10 pages of my book for free if you want to try it out or you know you get the full thing on Amazon kind of thing but want to stay in my world you get updated on all the things coming through but I don’t really I’m not big into spamming people’s zip boxes so don’t see it anti too many emails over here oh fantastic do you have any final words you like to share before we wrap up our podcast for today. Final words.

49:09 [sighs] Let’s see. I would say, you know, if you’re waiting for a permission slip to feel alive again, to live a life that’s more inspired, that you’re just excited for it. This is it. That no one else is going to create that life for you. That it’s not just going to show up one day and you get to create it. This is your permission slip. If you’ve been waiting for one, this is it. It’s by all of the big and the little actions and the choices that you make that you get to follow your joy and trust that it knows the way. Trust that you know the way. Trust yourself. You’ve got this. World needs your joy. You deserve your joy. I know the world can be wild enough for some people and they’re like, "Even to feel joyful." Who are you not to feel joyful? Like we need more joyful people inspiring the world with their beautiful creations and reconnecting people to their own joy to create a new world that’s even more inspiring and joyful in so many ways. So do with that what you will.

50:15 It’s a real pleasure to have you on our podcast. I want to wish you the best of luck with your your book and your camp and all your other endeavors. I think what you’re doing is really important. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me here. It’s been such a delight. Absolutely, Amy. Take care. Yeah, it’s a good one.