Your Past Does Not Define You: Charles Peterson on Trauma, Purpose & Success

0:00 Welcome to Inspire and Impact, the podcast where purpose meets perseverance. This is where transformation begins and your story continues. Welcome to the Inspire Impact Podcast Show. I’m your host, Daniel Rosenstein. Today I have the honor of interviewing Charles Peterson. Uh Charles, I was reading uh your profile a little bit about you before the show. Uh you have a very interesting uh background, so I’m very excited to have you on the show. Thank you for coming on today. Of course, Daniel. Thank you for having me. I love what you do with this podcast. And as soon as I saw kind of the description and what you were trying to put out in the world, I knew that I just wanted to come on and tell my story and hopefully if it can help somebody listening, then let’s do it. Great. Um, can you maybe share a little bit about yourself with the audience so people have more context about who you are? Sure. I can I can start with kind of who I am right now. I’m Charles Peterson.

0:57 I’m 44 years old. Uh I live in Northern Virginia. Um I am retired Army counter intelligence agent. Uh I spent 20 years in the army. Uh I currently work at Microsoft in a corporate position doing counter intelligence for them. And I also have a side business uh where I created a magic and mentalism company and I go around performing at various uh resorts and winery venues uh around Northern Virginia, DC and and Maryland just entertaining people with some of the human psychology and knowledge that I acquired from my my background in the in the military. Um also I’m married and I have two kids. My daughter Paige is 10. Oh my gosh, she just turned 10. Um she’s my best friend. And then my son, who I love as well, is uh Noah, and he is he’s 8 years old. And my wife, Sue. Wow. Well, congratulations on all your accomplishments. And uh it’s wonderful that like you’re close with your uh your daughter and family, but that always wasn’t the case. Um when I was reading about your background, um you grew up in in a foster care home. Is that correct?

2:09 Yes. Uh for like the first uh I’d say two two years or so. Uh and then I was adopted when I was three years old and my brother was uh adopted with me when he was two. And but you uh also like came from like a large family of you have like was it a total of nine kids in in the family and and each one has a different father. Yeah. Uh that that’s right Daniel. Um and I can just tell that story now if you don’t mind. Sure. Um, so I’m from Oklahoma. Uh, I was born and raised there, uh, in Mallister area, and I, like I said, I was adopted when I was 3 years old. My brother was two. I’ve known my whole life that I was adopted. Uh, when my parents uh, picked my brother and I up, my actual first memory is of that day. Like, I can remember right up until the moment of them picking us up. And, uh, they they brought a stuffed animal. It was a little goofy stuffed animal for me and a tiger stuffed animal for my brother. And I remember they took us home and we got back to their house and I stood at the top of the stairs that night at bed and I told my my mom I told her, "Tomorrow I’m going to live with my real family."

3:22 And my mom looked at me and she said, "Chuck, we are your real family." And I said, "Oh, okay." And I went to bed and I never brought it up again. Right? So like that’s the earliest memory I have. But everything that happened before that, um, I found out later, and I’ll get into that. Um, it was pretty traumatic. And there’s probably a reason that I only remembered up until the very day that my mom and dad, you know, picked me and my brother up. Um, before that, uh, our birth mother, uh, she had nine kids. Um, I was number seven of nine and my brother was eight of nine. So basically the state had determined that she was not fit to be a mother and every time she had a kid they were basically waiting in the hospital room to to to pick us up as soon as we were born and and remove us from the situation. The problem is is in the 1980s um well it wasn’t a problem but in the 1980s specifically uh health and human services really tried to keep families together. So even though they removed us from the situation, they constantly tried to put us back with her when they thought she was in a better place. So they would take us out, keep us for a little bit, and then bring us back months later and try and reunite us with with the mom because that’s their intent. Uh but she was never in a good position, right? So we would be with her for months, she would disappear and um we would end up in all manner of horrible situations and then somebody would call Health and Human Services, they’d come back, they’d pick us and it was just a cycle with every single child. Um I found out later that they were able to keep pairs of us together. So uh number one and two ended up together in the same home. Um three was by themselves, then four and five was together. uh six passed away. I was seven, my brother was eight, and then we never found out what happened to number nine.

5:19 Wow, that’s more than a mouthful. I um are are you still like in touch with those people today or Yeah. So, so what happened is I knew I was adopted my whole childhood. Um, I never had a desire to find my birth mother or any of that situation because in my mind it was always one of those things of I didn’t want to go to my parents and say, "Hey, thanks for everything. You know, you saved our life uh and my brother and now I’m going to go find my real parents, right?" Like that was never something that I wanted to make them feel. Um, so I never really had a desire to find them or find out information about them. The one thing that was missing though was context of where I came from. you know, what what what is my um nationality? Um what is my what is my genealogy? What is my history? What is my health history specifically? Because I knew I wanted to have kids one day. And it always bothered me that is there a history of diabetes or cancer? Um you know, are we prone to uh certain diseases? like there was a there was this black hole in my medical history that I didn’t know and I felt like having kids in the future was going to cause um unknowns for them as well and they would grow up not knowing half their family lineage, right? So that always kind of bothered me. Um but I asked my parents I was like what is what am I right as I was growing up and they always said uh we don’t know but we know you’re not Native American. And I was like, "Oh, okay." So to me, when I got into high school, what that meant was I was a free agent. So I could just pick any nationality I wanted. And I went with Italian because the ladies, you know, in my head, the ladies love Italian. So I would go around telling people I was Italian and they’re like, "Oh, okay." But I had one of those like kind of international looks. So wherever I was at, like I would get Spanish or

7:12 Mexican, I would get uh Italian, I would get Greek, uh, Middle Eastern when I was in in the army in the Middle East. So, wherever I was at, people always thought that I was of that area as long as they had, you know, a tan and dark hair. Um, but the one thing I knew is, okay, well, I’m not I’m not Native American. So, when I was 32, my wife suggested that I do a DNA test. I was like, oh, I never even thought of that. And when the results came back, it said that I was British and Native American. And I just stared at the results. I was like, what in the world is this? And I called my parents and I was like, "You lied to me. What are you doing? You told me I wasn’t Native American and this DNA test proves that I’m I’m very much Native American." And they said, "Chuck, listen. The paperwork that we got on you, there was a block on there that said, "Is this person Native American?" Because it was Oklahoma, right? Like Indian territory.

8:07 And the block was checked no. So we don’t know what to tell you. Like everything in the paperwork said you weren’t. So I found out later when I found my halfsister, her her name is Misty. When I found her through online research and and open source searching, uh she had done all the leg work to figure out everything that had the mystery of our past. And basically our mother, our birth mother had been lying on official documentation, but for a reason. Because in Oklahoma in the 80s, there was a rule on the books that said if you’re Native American, you can only be adopted by other Native American families. and she knew that at the time Native American families did not have the money and resources to adopt kids because they were just like in the situation she was. So in order to open the pool wider for her kids, she lied directly to the face of of the Oklahoma government and was like, "Nope, my kids are not Native American. Neither am I." And that allowed me to be adopted by my family and it changed my life forever. So had she not lied and said I wasn’t, then I never would have been the person I am today because of the influence of my my family.

9:15 So, like you mentioned you’re shocked, but did that like change like your life like that now you knew like about your national heritage or like cuz sometimes when people do these DNA tests they’re like yeah I I mean it’s interesting you know they it may have not known about it but it’s they kind of like put the paper down the next day it’s like you know it is what it is but so did it have any meaning to you? it. That’s a great question and it did because again it wasn’t so much telling my parents I wasn’t grateful for who they were and I had just told everybody I kind of adopted their their lineage too, right? Um but it gave me it gave me something to ground my kids in. So it was important to me to know I’m and I found out I’m Chalkaw Native American uh a member of the Chalkaw Nation now. Um, I have a Native American card and I have a tribal card with Chalkaw. Um, and my kids have one now, too. So, they’re a member of the Chalkaw Nation. Uh, that was important for me because again, it kind of helped me to understand our our heritage. And then I was able to read more into the background of the Chalkaw Nation and where they came from and everything they had been through and their struggles. And it kind of helped me to understand, hey, it wasn’t just me that grew up in these awful situations, but there’s a reason why. And because everything Chalkaw Nation had been through from the Trail of Tears where they were marched out of the South into Oklahoma and treaties that were signed and broken and the just the turmoil that they’ve experienced, that’s why Chalkaw Nation was struggling for so long. And that’s why my mom in the ‘8s was in the situation she was in because of all this stuff that happened. It wasn’t it wasn’t she was lazy or she didn’t want to take care of her kids. There was all this

11:09 stuff in the background of the Chakah nation that helped to explain why we ended up where we were. And it made it easier for me to not just forgive her, but make a conscious decision not to have that happen for my kids. I I read a little bit about on Wikipedia before our call about the Chachon nation and it it was very interesting. You said there was the trail of tears where there was like a treaty and it was broken and again I don’t know all the details but they they definitely went through a lot of hardship but I what I thought was very interesting is that during the Irish potato famine they actually raised money uh for those people to help them you know in a time of starvation which is amazing to me for for for people are suffering and you said no money no resources and yet they’re still raising money to help another group of people like living, you know, far away that they have no no direct connection to a out of like gratitude for, you know, of humanity. Um, that when I read that, I thought that was really admirable. I’m extremely admirable, especially like, you know, I I personally I don’t know if I I if I was, you know, kicked out of my land and suffering had no money, I don’t know if I could be able to raise money for somebody else. Maybe I would, but I mean, that’s pretty amazing. it. That’s exactly right. And actually, there’s a very special friendship between the Irish and the Chakaw Nation. And there’s statues uh on both sides in Oklahoma and in Ireland that commemorate that friendship and the the the help that Chuck Nation provided them during that time. And I think it’s best explained by I think Chalkaw just understood what they were going through.

12:51 They understood what it was like to to be in a situation where you were struggling and you had very little to eat and you needed assistance from the outside world if you wanted to get by. And it was very personal to them and they they said, you know, we don’t want to see anybody else in that situation if we can help it. And I think that’s kind of where their head and their hearts were at when they did that. That that is really amazing. So uh again I know very little about um the Chow Nation. I I read also it’s like one of the um larger tribes in southeast United States. Uh but I studied a little bit of shism and but you know I for some reason I I’m Jewish but I always had an affinity to a lot of Native American um cultures uh and the beliefs. I I personally liked a lot of things. What I read again not necessarily specific to Chhatchaw that like in the old days that like when they used to kill like a buffalo they use every part of the animal like you know to um you know uh to have gratitude or to like make use of every part of it like they didn’t just take it for one part. Um is there anything like unique about the Chaka that was different than other tribes that you can maybe share with us?

14:15 Yeah, that’s so one thing is they were considered a part of the five civilized tribes uh the Chalkaw, the Cherokee, the Creek, the Simol and the Chickasaw. And they all lived in the south at the time. And the US government uh came in and they were basically like hey we have so many people coming into the country. We need more space. We are going to colllocate these settlers with you in the south. Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, um just all across the South and and Florida as well. And um these five tribes, the five civilized tribes had their own reading and writing and language. And so they always were able to basically trade with those settlers and they settlers and the the folks moving in started referring to them as the civilized tribes because they could do trade and communicate and uh basically live side by side with them. And then fast forward, you know, decades and things go bad and the government moves them out, marches them out, they sign treaties and all that.

15:14 But once uh the Chalkaw arrived in Oklahoma, it was called Indian Territory at the time because Oklahoma didn’t become a state until uh I think it’s 1907. Um but when they arrived in Oklahoma, again, because they had written language, they had uh they had the ability to communicate with um you know, settlers and people that were in the area and do trade. uh write alphabet um all of that stuff. They were able to adapt more quickly than the other tribes that were coming into the same area. Um to go back though, your question, does the Chalkaw have any um thing that kind of makes them unique? Well, they basically created the game of lacrosse. Uh they called it stick and ball. Yes. The there are paintings and stuff of the Chalkaw playing these massive field games of lacrosse. uh you know a long long long time ago before the United States or America was settled. Um but yeah, they would have massive fields and have 200 people on the field all at the same time and they all had these sticks that they made out of you and and wood they found and they had the balls and they just run and play for hours uh on these massive fields and it was it was what became lacrosse. Um people saw it and then adapted the game later on.

16:27 So I thought I always thought that was kind of cool. That is really cool. I I like lacrosse. It’s a very interesting game and I had no idea about that. That’s part of why I love podcasting. I learn things from with the guests all all the time. It’s very uh interesting. So, I’m sorry. Go ahead. Oh, no, no, I didn’t mean to interrupt you. I’m sorry. No, no. I I was just um giving feedback what you were saying. Oh, I was just going to say that uh you mentioned something unique, too. And if if finding out that I was chocked, I changed my kind of mindset. Um, looking back, so when I was in Oklahoma, we have Oklahoma history or Oklahoma studies in school, right? And we always kind of celebrated in Oklahoma history something called the land run. And it was basically they went out into the to the middle of the prairie and they drew a line in the dirt and they had people line up, all these settlers, and they blew or shot a gun and then you shoot off past that line and go claim land.

17:23 And wherever you go, if you find a plot of land specifically by a river that you would want to settle, you stake your your wooden stake in the ground and that became your plot of land. And they did several of these land runs in Oklahoma. Well, in Oklahoma history at our school, in elementary school, we used to reenact it. So, they would let us dress up as settlers and we go out there on the playground and it was this big thing, this big reenactment. And I always loved it. It was so much fun because we’d line up and then run out and try and find land and then stake it. And if people were early like cheating, they would go the night before and and and stake the land and then be like, "Oh, look, I got the best land." They were called Sooners. And that’s the nickname of the Oklahoma uh Oklahoma is the the Sooner State. And so they were kind of celebrating those people that kind of skirted the rules. But it was funny because I grew up doing this, right? I grew up being the settler. And then when I found out later on that was one of the treaties that was broken with the Chalkaw, right? So like I grew up dressed up as settlers, you know, stealing this land literally uh in this scenario from my actual indigenous, you know, my my tribe, my my Chakaw nation.

18:30 And so looking back on it was a little it was a little mixed feelings on that that I I parttook in in that particular activity when it was pretty traumatic to the Chakaw nation, the other civilized tribes because when they moved there, they were told Oklahoma is yours. All this land is yours. Don’t worry. Well, then they discovered oil. And once you discover oil, they they move in. They’re like, "Oh, actually, we need this land. So, we’re going to, you know, do these land runs and and give it to these settlers, and we’ll give you even smaller and smaller areas." And those became the reservations that the modern day tribes u, you know, built their their nations around. So, they went from these huge plots of land down to like these tiny little uh reservations that they got. Well, it’s very fascinating, you know, and it’s kind of weird how life turns out. Like, you know, one day you think you’re living your life one day and the next day, you know, you have, you know, life gets up turned upside down topsyturvy. Like, [snorts] whoa, like, what’s going on here? Uh, I I’ve had some belief shocks multiple times in my life about what is real. I mean totally different situation from you but like I kind of question like what’s real in life what’s not about a lot of different things in life like you know philosophy religion reality it’s like when the movie Matrix came out people started saying oh we’re living in the Matrix it’s like okay oh yeah I get that absolutely I will tell you too though um it didn’t fundamentally change who I was as a person to find that out kind of a relentless optimist Um, I always try to see the best in every situation. I think a lot of that stems from um, you know, my my beginnings. I I mentioned that uh, once once I found my sister, she had paperwork on us and I started reading the paperwork and it was from from the state of Oklahoma and it was pretty upsetting, you know, to to

20:25 read the the situations that we were all found in and the reasons we were removed from the family. Um, you know, I think I mentioned to you before that, uh, the last straw for me and my brother, uh, they they found us in a completely abandoned, um, drug house. Uh, and I was face down on a mattress, um, unresponsive and barely clothed. My brother was in the corner crying. Uh, and there were some kids nearby rooting through a garbage can trying to find something for us to eat. Like, these were just neighborhood kids. Had nothing to do with us. They just were in the area. uh they didn’t know how long we had been there and they were just like I don’t know I saw these kids here and we were trying to find some some food. Um so that was pretty much the last time they tried to reunite us uh with our mother. And then from I was reading that in these papers, right? And it was it was very kind of difficult to process but also very understandable why I didn’t remember anything from my childhood prior to the very first day I was adopted. And then I started thinking about that and I was like, well, how much did going through that actually affect me, right? Did it did it affect the choices that I made later in life? Did it affect my trust of adults? Right?

21:35 Did did it did it affect the decisions that I made? And I can say looking back, absolutely it did. Um, not that I didn’t trust adults, but I have and and I still do an overwhelming um need to to to please people, right? Um, that stems from being in foster care before my parents adopted me and knowing that if people didn’t want me, they could or feeling like if they didn’t want me, they could give me back and I would go back to the same situation that I was in before, right? And so I learned early on how to read adults and understand the situation I was in and to say and do things where I provided value to them because I felt if I didn’t then me and my brother we we were going to be in a bad situation. And I didn’t know that’s what I was doing, right? But even now to this day I still a have a hard time accepting criticism because I feel like oh no, I failed and now they’re not going to want me. And it affected my relationships too with my wife and and my parents. Always wanting to kind of please them and to show them that I can provide value and that I’m that I’m good enough, right? Like so that that kind of upbringing shaped me into, you know, the overachiever kind of uh mindset. My brother went the opposite way. He he kind of dwelled on the traumatic upbringing that we had and used it as a crutch and as an excuse to make poor decisions in life and it led him down a path of dropping out of high school, never getting his uh never getting his high school diploma. He never got his driver’s license. Um he made several other choices, ended up going to jail for a little bit. Uh meanwhile, I have this overachiever complex where I am, you know, joining the army because I want my parents to be proud of me and

23:29 trying my best to get, you know, straight A’s and doing all these classes and and extracurricular activities so that people praise me and say, "Oh, yeah, Chuck is Chuck is a good person, you know." Um, so we kind of took really divergent paths all stemming from the same kind of traumatic moments that we had early in life. So why do you know I I was always very curious about you know these type of situations like people from similar upbringings including like your own family [snorts] uh think differently like you said you’re very optimist and your brother was somebody who divulged on the past and made you know why do you think that people are are you know different like that do you think it’s like random or or I I think it’s based on the situation that they find themselves in. So for me, when we were adopted, I felt responsible for my brother. I felt like I was it was my responsibility. He didn’t talk a lot when he was two or three. Uh he he was really quiet and I kind of understood what he needed or what he need uh wanted. And so I always spoke for him and I kind of got in trouble sometimes for speaking for him because I didn’t let him speak. But I felt like his parent more than his brother because of the situation that we found ourselves in. So that manifested over time into me trying to please people, to do the best I can, to be responsible for things that I wasn’t responsible for, right? How do you tell a kid you’re not responsible for for the outcome or the decisions that your little brother makes? Um, that’s not something that I understood.

25:02 So, even in middle school and high school, I felt like I was failing and I let him down when he’s making those decisions because it was me and him. And I didn’t really understand that he was responsible for his own his own choices. Um, I felt like because we were together through everything and I talked for him so much, I helped him so much that I always needed to do that. And so, a little bit I played a part in that, right? I dictated the roles that we were going to have. Um, and when I removed myself from that, I think some of the reasons he made those decisions because he wasn’t responsible. He didn’t know how to make those decisions for himself. So, we kind of I chose the roles for us and then and then we moved forward from there is what I’m trying to say. So, how did like serving the military affect your life? Did it feel like it gave you like structure and a sense of purpose at that time that like you know that you were fighting for our country and you said you were kind of doing it also uh partly to you know to please your parents. Did you find that that to be the case or or not really?

26:12 No no absolutely I did. So my dad was in the Navy, my mom was an Army nurse. And so I knew that about them when we were growing up. And so part of part of that whole idea of joining the army was like, "Oh, they’re going to be really proud of me because I’m carrying on the family tradition, right? This family legacy." Um, I always felt bad because I couldn’t carry on their DNA, right? I knew when I was going to have kids that it wasn’t going to be my dad’s DNA. And so I wanted to show him how grateful I was. And when I say they saved saved my life and my brother’s life, I’m being serious. They saved us. And I always knew that the reason that I am the guy I am today is because they did that first act of of of bringing us into their home when nobody else wanted us. Uh so I needed to find a way in my mind. I needed to find a way to show them how grateful I was. And that was because I couldn’t carry on their DNA. I could carry on that family legacy of the military. So when I told them I was going to join the military, I had gone to a year of college. This was in 2000.

27:13 and I’ I’d done okay. Um, but I don’t think I was really ready for being in university and studying and doing all that stuff. So, it’s interesting because I I over the summer I told him I was like, "I’m going to join the army. I think I’m going to do something in the military intelligence uh field. Um, I took these tests uh and they said that I I fit right into the the linguist section. So, that’s great." And they were they were very proud and they were like, "Oh, man. That’s awesome. You know, if that’s what you want to do, we support you." So, the morning I was supposed to go off to the military. Uh, I came downstairs with my bags and I was staying in the living room. My dad was watching the TV and we were waiting for he was going to take me and drop me off at the recruiting station. The recruiter is going to drive me to Oklahoma City. He was watching the TV and he said, "There’s been an accident." I said, "What do you mean?" He goes, "Uh, a plane flew into a building um in New York." And I turned and looked at the TV and I was like, "Well, was it was it an accident or was it on purpose? Like what happened?" And as we were talking, we watched the second plane fly into the tower uh on TV. And I just looked at him and I said, "Are are we under attack?" And all hell broke loose right after that. Right. So this is September 11th, 2001. I have my bags. I haven’t sworn in yet, but I’m supposed to meet my recruiter and I’m supposed to fly to basic training and swear in and join the military on this day. Uh mass panic, chaos, everything’s going on. Airport’s shutting down. Uh my recruiter picks me up. Uh there’s like 50 cars deep at every gas station. He doesn’t know what to do. So he drives me to Oklahoma City, which is two hours away. Drops me off in a hotel and says, "Good luck." And then leaves. He’s like, "I don’t know what’s happening. Uh good luck." So I’m sitting in at at 19 years old. I’m sitting in this hotel in Oklahoma City for a week. Uh nobody’s contacted me. I don’t know what’s going on. I’m watching all these reports on the TV about how we’re going to war. And I’m sitting there going, "Okay, I could go home right now. I haven’t signed any

29:08 paperwork. I don’t have to join the military. Uh, this is scary, right? Um, plus the only thing on TV other than the news was HBO’s Band of Brothers, which was this hor horrifying uh show on World War II. So, I’m watching this thinking, "Oh my god, this is what I’m going into. This is war." Uh, so I’m watching Band of Brothers and these news reports and they’re saying, "We’re going to war." And I knew at that point if I joined that I would go to war, right? I would be the first group through basic training and we were going to war for the first time in however many decades. And so I had to sit there with that for a week and finally on September 17th it came around and somebody found me in the hotel and they’re like, "Hey, are you are you still interested in joining and I had a decision to make and I could have gone back home but I chose not to." I was like, "I I want to I want to see this through. I want to I want to serve my country. I want to if I have to go to war, then I have to go to war because we’ve been attacked and I want to defend us. That’s what this is about." And it was like the ultimate volunteer moment, right? Because it wasn’t like I was already in and I had no choice. Like I sat there, I had a free choice. I could have gone home at any time. And part of it was like I I I want to make my parents proud and I want to do this. And so I joined September 17th, 2001.

30:17 And I ended up serving 20 years. Uh retired at 2021. But yeah, it was a crazy start to my career. Wow. that that’s that definitely like a a a really uh like shocking way to like start your military career when you know seeing the uh the World Trade Center was attacked. Um I I mean were you kind of like scared like going into the military or were you more like you said like were you optimistic like yeah I’m going to go in I’m going to kick butt that’s can it be both because Definitely. I have a lot of mixed emotions. Yeah. So, when I went through that first basic training, even the drill sergeants were like, "Shrugy, we don’t know. We don’t know what what it means to go to war." None of them had had done it. And so, they were trying to train us for something they didn’t know how to do themselves. And so, that was mass chaos as well. And they were like, "We think you might experience this or we think this might happen." But the truth is, nobody knew. So the fear came from the unknown you know um when you have training to fall back on and when you’ve done something before previously successful then you have confidence that’s where confidence comes from in this situation once I completed basic and I went through my my uh job training school um I didn’t have experience in this and no one did so we were all kind of finding out together what it meant to go to Afghanistan and I I didn’t go to Afghanistan uh by the time I finished um all the people had finished or They had my unit had gone to Afghanistan. They were coming home and then we were going to be there for like a 3 weeks and then go to Iraq uh for the initial invasion in 2003. Um so yeah, it was none of us knew what to expect. So yeah, we were scared. Um but also it wasn’t exciting.

32:10 It was it was much more we have a purpose. There’s something that we are supposed to be doing and we have a job to do. So let’s do that. You can be scared but you can still do your job at the same time. So, did you serve abroad or were you pretty much uh here? No. Uh, so I got to Fort Bragg, North Carolina in 2003. Uh, I was part of the initial invasion in Iraq. Uh, we went in March of 2003. Uh, we were hanging out in Kuwait for a couple weeks and then everybody started going north into Iraq and we followed behind them because we weren’t combat arms, we were counter intelligence. So our job was to make friends with the local populace, uh talk to them, find out who was trying to attack us, where weapons cachets were and things like that. So the the initial invasion happened, uh they were all fighting, clearing the way, and then we came in behind them, you know, days behind them, and then we would go talk to people and find out what was going on on the ground. Uh so we were there for a year, and then I came home for 3 months, and then we left again in November of 2004 to November of 2005. So I spent I spent two years basically out of three in in Iraq.

33:19 So how how is that like like staying in Ira, you in a foreign country like that? You see like you had to start talking to the local population. Did you had to learn Arabic? I mean I’m just curious like it’s a huge cultural like you know difference. It’s a different It is. And I got to tell you it was looking back on it because you know I live through it. Um it was amazing. Uh the Iraqi people are some of the the the kindest people that culturally that I’ve ever met in my life. Um we did have interpreters. Uh obviously I picked up a little bit of phrasing over the time that I was there. Um so I could do like basic greetings and things and I always wanted to um talk in their language. Uh but yeah, we had interpreters that went out with us on a daily basis. Um and I had to learn quickly. That’s where a lot of my body language expertise comes from is because when you’re talking to somebody and they’re speaking back to you in a foreign language, what they’re saying doesn’t matter because I can’t understand it, right? What I have to be able to do in that situation is read their body language and try to understand the intent of what they’re saying when the interpreter’s telling it back to me because I have to know if they’re lying to me. Are they setting up an ambush? Are they telling us that there is weapons over here so that I send my guys over there and then they get blown up? Um that’s the kind of intense situation where I had to understand human nature, human psychology uh and and that stuff transcends kind of um um humans everywhere. So everybody has the same basic things that they do.

34:49 And because of those situations, uh I got really good at reading intent uh deception indicators, more importantly when people were telling the truth because you know it doesn’t do any good if somebody is telling you the truth and you can’t recognize it. So, I picked up all that stuff and got to practice it real world in real situations um basically every day for for two years, which is the best graduate course you can you can hope for in that situation. Wow, that’s really interesting. That that’s I [clears throat] mean like so you grew up like you know in this foster home this and then next thing you know like you’re you’re in this other country in the middle of a war. I mean at that time did do you feel safe at all? And I know you said like you weren’t on the front lines, but like being that in the situation, it was still a war situation. Did you feel safe or or not or No. Uh so it’s a unique experience um to wake up every day and know one my job is to go outside the base, right? Like to put myself in harm’s way every day uh in order to do my job. And I was super scared when I first got there and I was like, "Okay, I don’t want to do this." And it got to the point where we were all looking at each other like, "Hey, um, we don’t really want to go out there cuz it’s scary. It’s dangerous. People are actively trying. People wake up in the morning actively going, I want to hurt you or kill you." Right? Like that’s just a weird situation to find yourself in. Um, but we relied on our training, our convoy training, our understanding of how attacks happen, our understanding of why attacks happen, why they were targeting us, excuse me. And over time, we got used to kind of desensitized to it. You you get used to being in that kind of hyper dangerous situation. And you have that experience where you’ve gotten through it before.

36:37 So you you are confident you can get through it again, right? And then that allows you to go into these dangerous situations, these scary situations, and do the job that you’re supposed to be doing because you’ve successfully gotten through it before. So the scariness factor lowers over time once once you just find yourself in those those situations over and over and over again. Wow. That’s really amazing. At least you know even though it was a horrible situation, you learned you said some remarkable skills that like it’s like you know in like a very you said a unique situation but you you came out with some really powerful skills which you can which you later adopted because Now, you still work at uh Microsoft? Yeah. Uh I did. I I got some uh very marketable skills. Um and it was stuff that I wanted to be able to share with other people. Uh because I feel like having all this knowledge and understanding, expertise doesn’t do me any good if I keep it to myself. And that’s kind of why I love the whole podcast um idea is it gives me the opportunity to talk to a larger group of people than I would normally get to talk to even in like a room of people, right?

37:50 And so once I once I completed my training and I finished all my time in the military, I kind of started reflecting on everything I’d been through and all the skills that I had in the job I had done. And I realized I do have a lot of skills and I have a lot of knowledge that could benefit people and not just uh you know military people but people in their everyday jobs and people in their everyday lives as well. And I wanted a way to be able to share that with them. Pause. Then I also needed a job once I got out, right? So there was something I needed to figure out another thing. It’s like, okay, well, I’ve done the military thing. Um, I could hit the easy button and go be defense contractor because that’s that’s very easy transition for military folks. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But I wanted to test myself in a different type of environment than I was used to. And corporate America was that type of environment. So when I got uh I started applying for Microsoft and when I got there I was hired um to basically be the bridge between an army contract that they had and the the engineers that Microsoft had. They don’t speak the same language. And now I get a chance to be that interpreter that I had when I was in Iraq, right? So I come in and I speak army and I learned corporate and I could speak to the engineers and explain what the army needed and then go back and forth. So, I got to be that bridge on this Army contract as I got into Microsoft and eventually it turned into counter intelligence work, uh, building a capability for Microsoft that they didn’t previously have. So, yeah, it’s been it’s been very cool to be able to use that experience that I had in the military and use it for a company or corporation like Microsoft. Um, but not just like, oh, he’s he’s an he’s a former army guy and all he knows how to do is, you know, run and shoot things.

39:40 I I want to ask you about that because when I talked to some people who served in the military for for some time I mean he served for like 20 years which my mind a long time not the longest time but it’s it’s you know quite a many years. Did you have any issues about adjusting back to civilian life? We say hey I’m I’m no longer did you did that that like also like throw a curveball at you like hey what am I gonna do now type of thing. 100%. Um there was everybody everybody kind of defaults to PTSD is like oh you know especially when you’ve been to war it’s like oh you have some sort of PTSD and I never really thought that I had post-traumatic stress syndrome but looking back there was things when I first got back where in Iraq we would drive down the highway and you have the left lane and the right lane and you just got used to you don’t drive on the right lane because that’s near the shoulder and that’s where every bomb is planted. Right. At the beginning when they were planting roadside bombs, they would put them in potholes and holes on the side of the road. And so you knew if you drove in the left, you had a little bit of standoff distance between the bomb and yourself. So if it went off, you wouldn’t necessarily die. Um I never really thought about that, but my whole life since I gotten back, I drive on the left in the left lane like 100% of the time. And my wife always comments on it.

40:58 She’s like, "What are you doing? You know, that’s for passing only. You shouldn’t do that. You’re going to get a ticket." But I don’t even think about it. Like I just intuitively drive on the left side of the road. And again, it stems 100% from spending two years dodging bombs and hoping that they don’t explode. One did and it hit our truck and it was it was we were we were lucky that we were okay. But um so I’ve been in attacks. So like that helps to dictate my future behavior, right? Uh and that’s just a minimal example of like driving on the left side of the road, but I still do it and I don’t apologize for it. it makes me feel comfortable when I do it. Um, and and there was other things that kind of manifested like that, but I never had the classic like breakdown or the classic like, you know, anger and aggression or depression from being overseas because of the unique experience that I had of my job was to go out and make friends. That was it. It was make friends with the the local populace, see the best in everybody.

41:53 Again, that whole relentless optimist thing. go out, see the best in everybody, talk to them, share meals with them, share share food with them, um, understand them culturally, understand why they do the things they do, understand the threats that they’ve been through because, oh my gosh, their life was crazy. It was really hard. They’ve been through a lot of traumatic stuff, too. And then help the army understand that because it was hearts and minds. It was it it was not just these are bad people, you know, we’re living in their country and we’re here trying to help them. We need to understand them in order to help them. So that all shaped my relentless optimist point of view and allowed me to not necessarily be upset or angry or or even depressed at the situations once I got back uh in in the in the states. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I again like I mean just going through your whole like history from the very beginning and through all that you’ve been through so much. It’s just amazing to me that you have so much resilience. like how how did you become I mean how did you develop that skill of resilience? You said there are people that serve in the military and you know just lose their minds and rightfully so.

43:02 It’s such a horrific situation for some people even though like you had a job and making friends but like you know you had to go through a situation where usually you’re driving you don’t know if this would be you’re going to go over like a bomb and that to me is it’s like you know very traumatic your your mind you have to constantly be in that fight or flight mode constantly like you know did [clears throat] you I mean like did you like do things like meditation or like read books like the Bible or something to help give you that like resilience or stuff like that or or do you think like you never did any of those type of you know any anything like that? You just kept like a a healthy mindset. Um that’s so yeah when so let me go back. So I had training in resiliency. So I went to Sears school which is survive survive evade uh resist and escape and it’s intended for uh pilots who fly overseas if their plane goes down and the that foreign adversary or or bad guy captures them and tortures them for information.

44:12 Sears school is meant to provide them with a guidance or or guidelines on how to get through that without giving away the secrets. Right. Um the version I went through was uh it was called governmental detention. Um, so it was meant if I was pulled through secondary and um and in a foreign country and made to do propaganda, how to get through that in a bad situation. So I I went through Sears School for for a couple weeks and that was that was like real world training scenarios where they’re like really mean to you and put you in bad situations and you have to understand how to get through it and how to bounce back. That’s literally what it was called was bounce back, right? uh to show resilience in really tough situations. So that training kind of was the baseline for everything for me moving forward. I understood that um you can be in really tough bad situations. Um but you can also get through them and how you get through them kind of is up to you if you have the ability to bounce back and understand, okay, this is bad in this moment, but it’s probably going to get better. And that’s what I’m going to look forward to. That’s what I’m going to anchor on is is the idea that this is going to get better. And that plays into my whole relentless optimist thing because I I I think even when bad things happen to me, I have the mindset of okay, this is a temporary setback. I’m just waiting for more good stuff to happen to me, right? And and having that mindset means even when bad things happen. It’s like it’s never like this thing. It’s not self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s not this thing, oh, I knew this bad thing was going to happen.

45:47 Oh, I can’t believe it. This confirmation my life is terrible. A lot of people have that mindset and it’s not their fault because the c circumstances they’ve been through. But I’m the opposite. I when bad things happen, it’s just temporary. I’m expecting more good things to happen because of my training and because of the life that I’ve been through and I’ve seen good things happen and I expect good things to happen. And so all of that kind of comes together to answer your question of like why I have that mindset. Again, I I still think it’s amazing and the fact that that you are, you know, relentlessly positive despite going through all those things. I mean, a lot of people couldn’t, you know, handle half the things you’ve been through and not become like, you know, a huge mess with like drugs or or other type of problems. Um, I mean, I was curious to know, I mean, now you’ve like you’re you’re older now. If you had a chance to go back in time and talk to your, you know, 5-year-old self, what would you like to tell your 5-year-old self, meaning your future self, which is, you know, you now, like wish, you know, what are things you would you wish you would have known or or Yeah. Um, that’s I I love that question.

46:57 Um, because I think about it just on my own. It’s like if I ran into little me, what would I say, right? Uh, I’d definitely tell him to buy Microsoft stock. But if but if that stuff I’m a company man, right? So if that stuff is off the table like benefiting uh you know on the future, what would I tell him? Uh I I would tell him I’d be like listen uh things are going to get tough for you. They’re going to be tough in life. And the only thing you really control is how you how you perceive it and how you go through it and the choices that you make. So, just understand that even if things are tough and things are bad and you don’t know how you’re going to get through them, um you’re going to and it’s going to be okay and you’re going to make mistakes. Um you’re you’re going to make decisions that that that weren’t good and you’re going to have consequences for those decisions. And again, that is okay.

47:52 That’s part of learning and that’s becoming who you are. And look at me now. I am hugely successful in life. I have a family that I adore. Um, this is what waits for you, right? But you have to make all those decisions. You have to go through those hardships in order to get to where we are today. So, just understand that that you can do this because you have done it, right? So, because you’re looking at future me, it it has happened. So, yeah, just don’t change anything. Just do the things that you’re going to do. Understand that it’s going to be tough and and you’re going to get through it just fine. So what advice do can you give to people in the audience about there’s a lot of people who who you know whether they went through foster care or not like they feel very lost in life. So like how do you think like what advice can you give to people to help them find their own purpose? So one thing I would say and I would never tell somebody it’s as easy as just having a good mindset. Right? But there are things that you can do in your everyday life that help get you baby steps that help get you on that right path. Um, one thing is words mean things. So there’s a difference between saying I have to go run today or I have to go to the gym today and I get to go to the gym today. Right? In your mind there is a huge difference between those two words and it’s just one word have to versus get to. And so when people feel like I have to go do this, it’s something that is is a burden. it’s something that they’re like, "Oh, I don’t really want to." And then your brain gives you the first opportunity to come up with a reason why not to.

49:22 There’s always going to be a reason why you why you won’t go to the gym or you won’t eat healthy or you won’t um try to do that that promotion thing at work or take a chance. Like there’s always a reason, right? Your brain is going to give you those reasons. Um but if you change that that have to get to and you try to look at it from that perspective, this is something this is an honor. This is this is something that I really enjoy. um then it becomes easier and easier and easier to do those things over time. It becomes a habit, right? And so like I go to the gym every night uh well not every night, like five times a week. Um but it’s because I get to and it’s because I want to, right? So people will do the things in their life that they want to do. And so if you can make that little switch from have to to get to, it makes it just that much easier for you to consistently do those things that are going to better your life. Um, and and and an example of the gem is just kind of a small example, but it it applies to anything. Um, I do I do really believe that words mean things, and if you can just do that one little switch, I think it it makes it easier uh to to try to better yourself.

50:29 The other question I had was about like about meeting your wife and having kids. Uh being like your background that you know originally you didn’t come from like a stable you know home and stuff like that. Did you find it difficult starting your own family? Was it like like I mean did you find like whoa like what’s it like to be you know in a a family that’s loving supportive and and and you know that you you get to create your own versus like what their life has handed to you. Like in foster care they tell you you’re going to this family. I’m assuming that they I mean I don’t know how the process works. I don’t know if they ask the kids hey do you like but you get to choose your family or they just Oh no. Uh and again Daniel, that’s a very astute question because uh I I was married for 10 years previously. So my first marriage um after 10 years fell apart and we got a divorce. And when I was in it, I always had this this mindset of, oh, I didn’t do anything wrong. Um uh you know, it was it was all it was all my ex-wife’s fault. You know, that thing. It was that I was I thought like that to kind of protect myself from from my own behavior. And there was nothing I was doing like dangerous or anything like that. But it was that that neediness. It was that wanting to please. It was that um that fear of being rejected, right? And I was so scared in this relationship, this first real relationship that I had with somebody, that she would not want me anymore that I put so much pressure on her that it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Right? So, over 10 years of that neediness, of that scared of, oh, you’re going to get tired of me, you’re going to not want me anymore. um I need to go over the top and mass romantic um you know gestures and I have to be

52:25 the perfect husband and that’s what I tried to do for 10 years and it just got I was creating like this this thing that she couldn’t live up to in our marriage and she got tired of it and I don’t blame her and because it’s exhausting and I didn’t understand that I was doing that obviously it wasn’t until after I got to reflect and on my own behaviors and try to understand and this was through talking with the therapist um that that I fully understood kind of my part in what happened. But to answer your question, yes, like because I wasn’t in a good headsp space healthy and learning from like all the stuff that happened to me the first time that I tried to have a relationship outside my own family, I messed it up. But again, the relentless optimist thing, it’s like, okay, well, what can I learn from this? Right? How do I not make the same mistake again? How do I not do this to somebody else in the future? uh because I wouldn’t want to put somebody else through that again. Uh and I want to have healthy relationships. Like that’s that’s something I want. I want to have kids.

53:22 And so talking with a a a therapist um about all of that and my background and my past helped me to understand my role in it. And it helped me to understand how not to to to create that same pattern again. So what what do you think is the key to having healthy like relationships? communication, overcommunication. Like, I was I was radically honest with my with my wife when I met her online. I was like, "Listen, I’m not hiding anything. I’m divorced. I don’t have kids. Uh I have a dog and a house." Like, it was a country song going on. I had a truck. Like, but I was I was radically upfront. Like, there was no like, "Hey, this is like I’m 32. This is who I am. Um, if you’re interested in that, that’s great." But I also knew at that time what I wasn’t looking for, right? And because I had I had that whole practice marriage first, uh I was able to go into the next relationship when I met her, um understanding that we were a good fit for each other and how we would compliment each other’s uh strengths and weaknesses. And so instead of looking for somebody who was exactly like me, I was looking for somebody who complimented me. So for instance, I’m super outgoing. I have never met a stranger I didn’t like talking to. My wife is not that. She does not want to be the center of attention. In fact, when we created our company together, um I tried to make her chief of operations or uh chief co CFO, chief financial officer. She told me no unknown. She said no. She’s like she’s trying to climb down the corporate ladder. She wanted to be a she wanted to be like a director level or something, but she did not want she doesn’t want like all the spotlight and everything like that, but like I do. So, it’s a perfect kind of ying and yang, perfect complimentation to each other. But because I was so uh

55:12 communicated with her so well at the very beginning, let her know who I was and kind of what I was looking for, she could make that decision of is is that what I want? Right? And I think sometimes people just don’t communicate with or talk to each other enough. So, they they take somebody’s actions and they’re like, "Oh, let me think of the worst possible reason this happened." where if you just ask them like I have no problem asking my wife, hey, are you mad at me? Did I do something wrong because I want to fix it and if I did, you need to tell me, right? But she her mindset is like, "Oh, well, I don’t want to upset you." Well, that’s not the point. Like the point is we need to understand and help each other and be partners and teammates. So, if I did something wrong, it it may hurt my feelings, but I’m going to get over it and I’m going to try to make it better, right? So, that’s that communication piece. And now we’ve been married 10 uh 11 years. Uh and it’s been it’s been awesome. Well, congratulations on that. As you said, like to me, I I believe in like evolution. Meaning, like nobody’s born perfect. We’re always learning new things all the time about ourselves, about our lives, about relationships, and and you know, we’re trying to constantly improve ourselves. At least most of us are.

56:19 And um I I was a question is I see some pictures of superheroes on the wall. Is that my Are you like a superhero person? Who’s your favorite superhero and why? Uh, so my daughter thinks I’m Captain America. She she she has thought I was Captain America since we were little. And so that drawing in the background is of me as Captain America and she’s standing next to me as Wonder Woman. And then I’m holding my son Noah in my in my hands. And my wife actually um had that commissioned by an artist uh probably six, seven years ago uh because my daughter was just obsessed with me and she knew my military service and everything. Um but she was like my daddy is a superhero and that’s what she thought. And so that’s also kind of helped to guide the the father that I am, right? It’s like I want to live up to that ideal that I know I’m not perfect, but my daughter thinks that I can do anything. And so I always have that in the back of my mind whenever I’m scared to start a new business or to try something at work or whatever it is. I want to live up to the person that my daughter already thinks I am and my son too, but this this happened when you know he was a baby. Uh so yeah, Captain America kind of became a theme for us.

57:37 Uh I have I have and you can see up at the top there, there’s the first Captain America metal sign there. But that one means a lot because the the artist that drew it uh that was one of the last things he drew uh because he passed away probably six or seven months after he he created that. So he didn’t make any other drawings after that. And so yeah, I definitely hung that up with some pride. Ah, it’s really amazing. So before you you mentioned that you’re like you’re also a mentalist. Can you explain like I’ve heard some people say that like how’s that different than being like a magician or hypnotist? Yeah, I love that. And that’s a Everybody has that question, right? Whenever I introduce myself, the first thing they say is, "What the heck is a mentalist?" Um, and I describe it different than other other mentalists will tell you. So, there’s three tiers of magic. There’s magicians. And when I say magician, I want you to think of like Las Vegas stage, giant props, um, magicians assistant, uh, David Copperfield or, uh, Pen and Teller or Sig Freed and Roy, right? Those are magicians doing these big huge stage things. Then you have illusionist. And illusionist are close-up magic, street magic style where they’re doing something that looks impossible. It defies the laws of science and nature.

58:52 Uh David Blaine, Chris Angel, our illusionist. And then you have mentalist. And probably the most famous mentalist is O Pearlman. He’s been on everything. People have seen him do stuff for the White House and NFL teams. Uh mentalists will tell you they can read minds. I do not tell you that. uh because I’m married and if I told my wife I can read strangers minds but I can’t read her mind all the time I would be in a lot of trouble. So what I do is I make predictions and then I use my knowledge of human behavior and psychology and choices that people make and influence and I try to lead them to having my prediction come true. So that’s my version of mentalism is I’ll make a prediction then I do a bunch of stuff talk to them and then I reveal hey look it matches what I predicted. So that’s that’s kind of I don’t read minds, but I that’s my version of mentalism. Can you give us like an example? I mean, do you show them like like a piece of artwork? Do you have like an easel or you’re like, "Oh, this is the number you’re thinking." Or something like that.

59:47 Uh so some of the mentalism stuff that I do is like um it’s like it it kind of loses to tell you what, let me let me show you this. This is this is what I do for people. And I’ll do this for you right here. Okay. Um, I have I have a card. Can you see that? Actually, check this out. Can you see that card? Yeah. Okay. So, here’s what we’re going to do. There’s 30 There’s 30 gift ideas on this card. Okay. 30. One out of 30. It’d be really hard for me to just guess which one you’re going to pick, but I’m going to hold it up to the screen. I want you to silently in your mind see one that you think you would like. Okay. Okay. You got one? Yeah. Okay. Perfect. So, we’re going to put this down. Now, I have these cards here, and they all have different gift items. So, all you have to do, very simple, I’m going to hold it up to the screen. If you see the gift you chose on here, say yes. If you don’t see it, say no.

1:00:43 Yes. Yes. Okay, perfect. You’re doing great. That was quick, too. No. Okay, that’s okay. How about now? Yes. Okay. How about now? No. Okay. And last one. Yes. Perfect. So, you had 30 choices that you could make, right? There’s no reason for me to know which which selection you made. You didn’t say it out loud. You didn’t write it down. There was nothing like that. So, I’m going to do what I did when I was a kid. If I found a wrapped gift, I would shake it to try to figure out what was inside. Oh, this is interesting because this is I don’t think this would generally be wrapped. I think what you chose is is kind of big. Um, it’s I wonder if you chose this because you actually like it or because you were just testing to see if I’d get it right. Did you pick a pony?

1:01:44 Oh my god, that’s amazing. Yes, that’s exactly what I picked. You picked a pony. Okay, great. That’s awesome. Uh, is there a reason you picked a pony? It just got my attention. Like when he showed me the like the all the different things, it just stood out my mind. I was like, "Wow, that’s really amazing." Okay. Well, there you go. That that’s an example of kind of what I do. So, do you do this like what like birthday parties, corporate events? Yeah. So, uh I have kind of two different uh branches of my business. Uh it’s called the Veteran Mentalist LLC. Uh we do entertainment uh at high-end wineries and breweries and resorts. So I’ll do like a stage style show for those types of venues. Um and then I also do a lot of corporate work uh with team building, leadership training, uh leadership resorts, um where I talk about keynote speaking and um how to use influence in your daily uh jobs, how to team build, um how to get everybody on the same page. So, a lot of the lessons that I learned in the military, I focus that stuff, but I use magic to tie it together, right? So, it’s not just a, hey, trust me, bro. I know what I’m talking about. I’m a thought leader. It’s more, hey, here’s what I learned.

1:02:59 Now, let’s do a magic demonstration to show you and tie it all together and it’s been it’s been awesome. So, yeah, I kind of do both. I want to like also talk about something you mentioned before about like trusting people because you said like when you’re earlier on you had issues trust but it seems like today there’s so much fake fakery going on especially with like social media and stuff like an AI like anybody can create like an AI image or AI video. How can people like trust people in the day of like where it seems like like 99% of stuff especially like online is fake. So, I love that you asked that. For what? Because I can wax poetic about this topic for hours. I’m I’m obsessed with like truth and and and deception indicators and there’s no such thing as lie detection. That doesn’t exist. Uh and one, humans are really bad at detecting lies anyway. Uh but to answer your question so that I stay focused, um we have in this human society, we have something called a default to truth.

1:04:00 uh we assume the people we’re dealing with are telling us the truth. We have to because society would not function otherwise. You can’t have everybody going around going, "Oh, this guy said something to me. He lied." Right? Like that society wouldn’t work. So we have all of us have a default to truth. Malcolm Gladwell in his book Talking to Strangers, awesome book on the subject. He really hits on that theme throughout of of the default to truth and explains why we’re so easily deceived by lies because we automatically default when we’re talking to people that this person is going to be honest with me. So when they’re not, it’s very hard for us to spot that and understand why somebody would treat us that way. The other thing is humans are not very good at lying. They’re just not. It feels uncomfortable to lie. So there’s always indicators of things happening in the background whether with their face or their body language that shows you that they’re not being completely truthful or they’re uncomfortable with the thing they’re saying. Okay, so that is happening. So you have two things. I assume you’re telling me the truth. I’m not good at lying and it’s going to show up in the things that I say and do. Pause.

1:05:04 How can we understand or how do we work ourselves throughout this this world when somebody’s not being honest with us? Right? The number one thing you can point to is if you ask some and let me pause. This is Chuck Peterson’s opinion. Do not take this as fact. And this is the disclaimer. If it doesn’t work 100% of the time, I got it. This is just what I have observed in my life, right? When you ask somebody a question and they don’t answer your question, they answered your question. So, for an example, I know all of this stuff, but I got home from work the other day. My wife looks at me and goes, "Did you come straight home from work?" That’s a very specific question, right? It has a very specific answer. Yes or no? What did I say? And again, I know about lie detection. I know about deception indicators. Did I say yes or no? No. Because I needed to know how much she knew. I don’t like lying to my wife. I’m not going to lie to my wife. But I didn’t come straight home from work. I went golfing. And so in my mind, I’m like, does she know I went golfing? Did she see the find my iPhone on the golf course like hole number four? Like what does she know? Why did she ask me this question very specifically for a reason?

1:06:10 So what did I say? I said, "Did I come home from work?" What? I repeated the question to her like immediately instead of saying yes or no. So when when I repeated the question, what I did is I answered her question, "No, I did not come home from work." Right? And people do this in their their their entire daily lives. So, if you ask somebody a direct question that has a yes or no answer, and they don’t answer that yes or no answer, there’s something about their answer that they’re not comfortable telling you, and it may not be a lie, but it just may be a personal thing, or it may be something. What that tells you is that you have more questions to ask. You have to dig into that more to try to figure out what it is. But they just told you there’s something that I’m not comfortable sharing with you about what you just asked. Otherwise, they would be really just go right and say yes or no. They would answer your question. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Totally makes a lot of sense. And I kind of thought about that myself. Uh like a few times when I ask people a question, give me an answer. I’m like, "Hey, what’s going on? I wanted to give me an answer." Yeah, that’s exactly. And you noticed it and and people do notice it. There’s something off whenever you ask a question that has a very simple answer and they don’t provide that answer. And there’s all kinds of things that people do to get around that. they rephrase the question because they’re buying themselves time to try to come up with an an answer that would be satisfying to the person that’s talking to them, right? Um, so they can repeat the question. Uh, they can get mad and indignant. How how dare you accuse me of they didn’t accuse you of anything. They just asked you a question. But if you if you attack them, then maybe they’ll back off, right? So that’s another way that somebody doesn’t answer the question.

1:07:43 There’s another one people love doing this. They’ll they’ll give you their resume. They’ll be like, "Uh, I sell Bibles out of the back of my car every weekend. I would never, you know, they’re giving you their resume, but they’re not answering your question. So, again, they’re telling you that whatever you just told them or asked them or accused them of is probably pretty accurate because otherwise they’d say, "No, I did not do this thing you accused me of." So, we talked about a lot of different things in our conversation today. What is it you want like the people in the audience to really get out of your conversation about you know what is it you really want to share with people like you want them to know? [snorts] Yeah. So one I just I want kind of my life to be an example of you don’t have to be the things that happen to you. Right. Uh I mentioned my brother before. He’s really struggled in life. He he has not been successful. Um he made very poor decisions throughout his life that led to where he is now. Um at the same time, I was in the same situation, nature versus nurture. I grew up with the same parents. We went through the exact same stuff and I made different decisions that were hard and I made bad decisions as well, but the decisions I made helped to shape who I am. Right? So, I just want people to understand that even if you’ve been through a traumatic experience, you don’t have to let that define everything moving forward. You can you can consciously decide, I am going to try to get better. I’m going to try to be kind.

1:09:21 I’m going to try to help people. I’m going to try to use what I went through to help others to get through the same thing. You know, like you can be successful in life even when life has been hard. Um, you just have to You just have to to start. Like there’s always going to be a reason not to, but you just have to start and you have to try. And if talk if hearing my story and seeing hearing the things I’ve been through and seeing where I’m at now inspires you, that’s awesome. That’s what I want. You know, I want people to see me and be like, "Hey, Chuck is inspirational. Charles is inspirational." um if if if hearing my story tells them that, you know, maybe they can maybe they can get through tough times too, you know, that’s that’s kind of it can be done because we’re as humans, we’re always looking for examples of success. We’re always looking for examples of people who’ve done the things we want to do. And so when we see somebody who’s been something through something tough like us and see them come out the other side, it makes it that much easier for them to try to do it, too, because they know it can be done. And that’s what I want.

1:10:28 That’s great. Well, the name of our show is Impact, you know, inspire and impact. And I definitely think you’re like a big inspiration to a lot of people. That’s why I was very excited to have you on the show. Uh Charles, I want to thank you so much for for coming on the show and and sharing about your experiences, your life, uh your observations, uh and and I really enjoyed that mentalist. Uh I don’t know if you call it game or or uh a task or whatever. It was kind of cool. [clears throat] So I call it an effect. So I don’t I don’t use the word trick. People say magic tricks. And again, words mean things. If you say trick, it sounds like I’m trying to deceive you, right? And that’s not what I ever want when I ever ask for a volunteer or want to show somebody. So I always call them uh magic routines or magic effects because uh again, it’s it’s we’re working together to create an amazing moment. There’s nothing about showing you up or making you look silly or trying to trick you. So I never say magic tricks. So yeah, you actually intuitively didn’t call it a magic trick, which I’m impressed with.

1:11:25 Uh you called it a magic effect. So that was good. Great. Well, again, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really enjoyed this conversation. Um even though again I said like I have a very different background than you. I I saw a lot of things in myself and you and I definitely learned a lot uh from talking with you today and I’m sure a lot of the other people in the audience did well. So, thank you so much for being an inspiration to so many people. I know you said like you do your mentalism and and consulting and your businesses. If somebody was interested in working with you, what’s the best way they can reach out to you? Oh, yeah. Uh, so we have a website. Uh, it’s called veteranmentalist.com. Uh, there’s no ‘the’ on the front of it. It’s just veteranmentalist.com. Uh, it has everything from our social media links on there. It also has booking forms. It tells you exactly what we do. And there’s an email address you can reach out to me at from there. Um, and I’d be happy to chat. And even if it has nothing related to my business, if there’s anybody out there that’s just struggling and just want somebody to talk to, look me up. Send me an email.

1:12:30 I’m happy to chat. I’m happy to talk to you. Um, if I can help you in any way, I want to. Well, Aaron, thank you so much for sharing everything you did. I I really enjoyed the conversation. Do you have any final words you’d like to share before we sign off for the day? Uh, no. I just want to thank you again, Daniel, for for having me on to your podcast. Um, I love what you’re doing. Again, just creating hope and sharing stories with people so that they can get inspiration from those stories. Like, I love that idea and I was it was an honor to to join you and uh to to participate on the show. So, thank you. Thank you.